Ian Gotts Blog

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The rise of the Steath Cloud

 

One element of the debate was the rise of business initiated cloud computing, which the CIO may never hear about.  Something I'm calling the Stealth Cloud

Cloud Computing seems to have struck a chord in a way that ASP, OnDemand, SaaS and all the previous incarnations never have. Every analyst is blogging and tweeting about it, there are a slew of conferences, and a surprising number of books have already been published.

 

And there is now more than one sort of Cloud. There are Public Clouds and Private Clouds. I propose “Stealth Cloud” should be added to the lexicon.    As the name suggests is does its job – quietly, unseen, unnoticed.

 

Silver lining?

So business people are embracing the ideas of Cloud Computing. Why? Because they can see immediate value from the applications and services being offered.  And with technology becoming easier to develop there seems to be no limit to what is being provided in the Cloud, all packaged in a very compelling, fun user experience. 

Consumers are business people too

 

So when the individual is provided with these elegant services as a consumer it is inevitable that they bring them to work. With services such as on-line backup, project management, CRM, collaboration and social networking all available through a browser, is it any surprise business users are signing up and ignoring the staid and boring applications provided by the IT department.

 

Hence the rise of the Stealth Cloud.  Services being consumed by business users without the knowledge, permission or support of the CIO and the IT department.

 

The widening business IT divide

 

Too much has been talked about the Business IT divide. But unfortunately the Stealth Cloud has driven an even greater rift between business and IT.  It is exposing, as far as the business are concerned the lack of flexibility, agility and responsiveness of IT.  From IT’s perspective who can see the risks (operational, compliance and integration) of using some of these Cloud services, is simply underlines how cavalier and naïve the business users are.

Unfair rap

 

Corporate systems are costly to build and maintain. They are mission critical and need to support the entire operation.  So there is a good reason why the internal IT department cannot ‘knock-out’ application as fast as a nimble start-up.  The IT department is spending 80% of its time and effort ‘keeping the lights on’ and the remaining 20% on providing new solutions that are robust, scalable, secure and integrated into the core applications. How many of the ‘new’ Cloud providers are truly enterprise ready?
 

Confusion squared

 

BPM has multiple definitions, which was discussed in What Hat are You Wearing, and Cloud appears to mean anything which is accessed via the internet, unless it is Private Cloud and then it seems to be anything..... internet, intranet, WAN or even LAN. So let’s get some definitions sorted first. They may not be the definitions that everyone agrees on, but they will set the scope for the discussion here.

 

Definitions (do not skip this)

 

BPM – a business process management application which documents and executes a business process (eg Order to Cash, Idea to Product). By execute, I mean the process, which has both manual and automated activities, is accessed by an end user to get their job done. Examples of BPM applications (not necessarily Cloud) are Pegasystems Smart BPM , Global36 Process360, Software AG ARIS & Nimbus Control. So by Cloud App I mean an application and data that is not hosted by the client but by a 3rd party and is accessed over the internet.

 

If you want to be a purist you would say that there is no local application installed on the client device apart from a browser, but that is not always practical for a range of reasons: access when no internet connectivity; access using mobile devices; data back-up.

 

A confusion that reigned at a recent event where I was on the Cloud panel was that people were talking about Processes in the Cloud in which they also included a 3rd party delivering the processes on behalf of the client. An example would be Payroll or Call centre processes. I would describe as BPO (Business Process Outsourcing). Confusion cubed.

 

Potential?

 

So definitions set, what is the potential for BPM in the Cloud? Certainly the CIO in any organisation is looking at Cloud applications to be able to manage down cost, move CapEx spend to OpEx and potentially eliminate the hassle of running applications. But none of these decisions are made without taking a hard look at the risks and assessing the potential migration cost. Business leaders see Cloud Computing as a way of circumventing the IT logjam and getting ‘stuff done’. This is being done with or without the permission or even knowledge of the CIO. This is something I have coined the Stealth Cloud and am speaking about regularly at conferences such as the IT Directors Forum. So what are the risks?

 

The list of questions that need to be considered is long – in fact runs to 94 pages in my book Thinking of.. Buying a Cloud Solution? Ask the Smart Questions. (So not a fun read but critical!!!) And the questions aren’t all technical. Many of them are business and cultural. The technical questions can probably be answered more easily. So here are some of the question areas:

• Why are we considering Cloud Computing? These are questions around the benefits and opportunities that are achievable. What is motivating you?

• What do we need from the service? These are about your organization’s business and technical needs. Are there opportunity-led business benefits or is this simple cost reduction?

• What are the costs? Where are the internal costs of implementing Cloud Computing? What infrastructure upgrades, training costs, migration and licensing.

• What are the external barriers? There will be external limitations; legal, contractual, or physical that will need to be addressed. Some may be deal-breakers.

• Are we ready internally? What are all the activities that need to happen to fully exploit Cloud Computing? Is the organization in a position, emotionally, financially and technically, to implement Cloud Computing?

The future is already here

 

Some say that the future is already here, but it is unevenly distributed. By that we mean that if you look around you can find examples of any new innovation being used in anger, delivering business benefits, it’s just that not everyone is using it. A recent survey by Information Age highlighted the top 10 Cloud Computing systems. What is interesting is that they are currently all 100% hosted.

 

None of them has any locally installed software. Whilst this may be the best route for some systems, and is certainly the ideal answer for a consumer system, it is not necessarily best for an enterprise customer. They may require the local processing power of a PC for some analytical or reporting, but also the system needs to recognize when users are not connected and allow them to continue working, albeit with slightly reduced functionality.

 

But what of BPM in the Cloud

 

There are now a large number of vendors who have a Cloud based offering. Many of them pre-date the Cloud. Nimbus Control’s User Centric Process Management application has been available and used as a hosted offering for over 5 years. The service originally branded JumpStart as it was expected that it would be used for early stage pilots. But it became very rapidly obvious that clients wanted to use the service longer term for full production, or at least for several years until they had their own infrastructure in place.The roster of over 100 clients who have used the Nimbus Cloud is impressive;  Cognos, SAP, Nestle and Carphone Warehouse..... And many of these are still using it every day. For example Carphone Warehouse in the video below.

 

 

Other examples are more workflow or document centric BPM vendors who have launched Cloud offerings are are Pega, who are leaders in Gartner’s BPMS Magic Quadrant, and Vitria. Lombardi, recently bought by IBM has had a Cloud based modelling tool for a couple of years, but their BPMS engine is still on-premise, but with IBM’s support for Cloud it is only a matter of time. And if the Cloud is written about Salesforce.com is inevitably referenced. In the BPM context they have just acquired Informavores which is a workflow product which enables Salesforce.com transactions to be strung together which has been rebranded Visual Process Manager.

 

The final word?

 

BPM and Cloud has a place in the technical architecture of many companies, but only once the non-technical issues have been resolved. And you should look for benefits in terms of better joined up thinking across geographies and speed to deployment rather than straight technical cost savings.

<object width="400" height="280"><param name="movie" value="http://nimbuspartners.com/modules/flvmediaplayer/player.swf"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"><param name="flashvars" value="file=http://www.nimbuspartners.com/sites/default/files/flv/CWHow2.flv&amp;location=http://www.nimbuspartners.com/sites/default/files/flv/CWHow2.flv&amp;volume=90"/><embed src="http://nimbuspartners.com/modules/flvmediaplayer/player.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="400" height="280" wmode="transparent" flashvars="file=http://www.nimbuspartners.com/sites/default/files/flv/CWHow2.flv&amp;id=tv_player_obj&amp;volume=90"></embed></object>

1 Free upright Piano. Will need some reconditioning to return to good condition, but is marginally playable (and horribly out of tune) now.

Here's how it will work. You and as many of your strong friends that you can Tom Sawyer into this job will come by and move the piano off my second floor (1 set of straight stairs) into a vehicle of yours. I'm not lifting it, or providing a vehicle for it. I will help you gently guide it through my house so that I still have walls after you leave.


Now here's the part that I know will be hard for people to understand:

I'm not holding it for anyone without a $100 deposit for every week you want me to hold it. Not even if you ask really nicely.

The first person to show up and take it gets it. This piano was listed once before, and you wouldn't believe the number of homeless dying one-legged Mongolian orphans that just needed a piano to make life better. I heard some great sob stories (probably all true!) about why I should hold this piano for this person or that person. Well, I ended up holding it for the first caller, who never got it. Then I held it for someone else, and they never got it. Then everyone was gone, and I still had a piano.

"But wait!" you're saying. "Why should I put down a deposit on something that's free?" Well, if you want me to hold it, you can give me a $100 bill. I'll tape it to the piano. When you get the piano, you get the $100 with it! It's like getting paid $100 to take the piano! You won't find a better way to get your money back - *and* you get a free piano! If you forget, or get run over by a busload of orphans on their way to get a free harpsichord, I'm going to keep the $100. Want me to hold it 2 weeks? That's $200.

"But I don't trust you to keep my $100..." Well, I don't trust you to come back and get this oversized paperweight. I tried that before and it didn't work.

"But I don't have $100 and I really want the free piano!" OK, just come get it! It's really that simple.

"But I don't have $100 and I can't come by with a truck for two weeks..." No piano for you! Life sucks; get a helmet.

I don't really want the piano. It came with the house when I bought it. I play the flute, which I can carry in one hand. I've tried picking up the piano with 1 hand, and I can't quite get a good grip. Please, take my piano.

So, if you want it, show up and take it! Simple, huh?

 

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. After awhile, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result. Pretty soon, when any monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.

Now, turn off the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him.

After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced.

Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? Because that's the way it's always been around here.

And that's how company policy begins...

 

There are a number of people who come from the more traditional sales world who haven't yet grasped the power of social media.  You can tell them because they describe this as a waste of people's time, unnecessary distraction or not real work.


They say - why would I want to know if someone is getting on a plane or going to bed.  Agreed.  Neither do I.  Here is a great view on what to NOT tweet about. 

And they have a point.  Done in a random way it is very easy to become distracted by an interesting, but irrelevant tweet or blog. That leads you to another and another and suddenly the morning has gone.

However, the world of PR and marketing is being turned on its head by the power of the internet – i.e. social media.  The internet is working its way through industries, changing them forever; buying books (Amazon), selling your stuff (eBay), buying and listening to music (iTunes, Spotify).  Now newspapers are dying a death.


So the crux of Social Media can be summarised in 61 words (provided by David Meerman Scott  who had some help from Randy Kaipaniolo  

You can buy attention (advertising)
You can beg for attention from the media (PR)
You can bug people one at a time to get attention (sales)

Or you can earn attention by creating something interesting and valuable and then publishing it online for free: a YouTube video, a blog, a research report, photos, a Twitter stream, a book or an ebook, a Facebook page.
Earning attention

 

At Nimbus we’ve known the power of the earning attention. 5 years ago we wrote a book called Common Approach, and have sold or given (mostly given) away 5,000 copies in the UK and 30,000 copies in China.   More than anything else, that has built an understanding of how to drive transformation changes in corporations. From there it is a small step to Nimbus’ powerful process mapping and management application – but Nimbus is NEVER mentioned in the book.

This is SO important if you are an innovative startup. This si discussed in my book Why Killer Products Don't Sell. You can get a free book summary from Killer-Products.com

 

I have a investment in a publisher called Smart Questions.  The publisher is based on a couple of simple principles:

-          If you give someone a book they can’t throw it away

-          If you are an expert, using the Smart Questions structure, you can write a book in 40 hours (yes really)

-          Print on Demand means a print run of just ONE book is less than £8 / $12

 
The concept has really struck a chord and companies are writing Smart Questions books and giving them way instead of marketing material. 

 

Spin-off benefit for the planet: The books are kept (and possible read) and then passed onto someone else, but marketing material is trashed almost immediately.

So now we need to add blogging and Twitter into the PR mix.    So does it work?  Yes, but you need to persevere.  Be patient.  Earn trust. Give value.   2 tweets, a follow and then direct email DOES NOT WORK.  Those of you who have sent me junk email, and I have unfollowed you, you now understand why.

So does twitter and blogging work?

Dave Stewart, Eurythmics talked about radiators/drains on a national UK Drivetime radio show a few days earlier.  They searched on Google and my blog popped up.  Voila.   The blog is here  updating original one.    My bit is at 18mins here – includes a couple of non-PC remarks (no surprise there).

So hopefully a Radio4 presenter from a more business-oriented programme will listen and say ’We need to interview him’.    If not, no matter - it made my mum proud.  However, I’ve been surprised how many people have emailed me to say they heard my slot – either through email or on Twitter.

Another angle. 

 

Doug Richard of Dragon’s Den fame told a story about the Entrepreneur’s Manifesto he had written.  His PR team did an amazing job and got him an interview with the Financial Times. The journalist was initially dismissive saying there was no story, and finally wrote a couple of lines buried in an article.  Doug tweeted about it and with all the retweets it reached over 500,000 people within a couple of days.

The final word

But don’t think that blogs and tweets have replaced all other PR.  It is an additional channel, but requires a different technique. So don’t dismiss what you don’t understand.

 
 

Dave Stewart from the Eurythmics was interviewed on BBC Radio2 Simon Mayo Drivetime show and talked about "Drains and radiators".

 

So Simon Mayo interviewed me to explore it in some more detail.

Oprah Winfrey, when once asked what she wished she'd learned earlier in life said "I wish I'd known how to distinguish radiators from drains". 

 

"Radiators" are people who give out warmth, kindness, love, honesty, positivity, energy, enthusiasm and all the good things which people need and respond to.

"Drains" are people who are negative, downbeat, suck the energy out of others and don't like themselves.
 
So life's too short to work with drains ............... unless of course you're Dynorod.

So how does this work in practice?

Sir Clive Woodward, coach of world cup winning England Rugby team in 2003 inherited a set of players.  For a number of matches he was selecting on their match playing abilities - on their rugby skills.  But a training camp with the Royal Marines made him change his mind about team selection.  The Marine's words were ringing in his ears "It's not about skills. It's about atitude and the effect on the team. One wrong team player can sap all the energy from the group."

The ultimate test is going into battle, ie the Royal Marines. You're in the helicopter with 8 of your team going into a firefight. Looking around those 8 individuals you need to be very clear that they are the right people - energisers, not energy sappers.

So with sport the results are  very visible. There is no place to hide.  Win or lose. 

So does this work in businesses?

 

Yes it is totally true but decisions that could and should have been made about staffing are fudged and avoided.  There appears to be less at stake. 

 

Or maybe you've never thought about your employees in these terms.At Nimbus we hadn't. Until we had Sir Clive speak at a Nimbus Inspiring Performance conference.  We talked about energisers and energy sappers. Suddenly it struck us why some teams were performing and others not.  We took immediate action and let some of the staff go. The energy in the whole company soared. It is now a critical part of how we evaluate new hires.

So what are you....  And if you are a drain can you change? 

 

Here are 3 steps

1. recognise if you are drain (or have drain-like moments)
2. try and catch yourself once a day about so say something drain-like, turn it around and look for the bright side
3. do this every day for 21 days and you will be staggered by the results

Any if you are drain you REALLY will be staggered.
 

 

The Golden Circle: Why, How, What?

 

 

 

We all woke up in the UK this morning to a shock result – no result. A hung parliament.

 

As a sidenote: Think how things have changed from the election 4 years ago.  Where did you go first to check on the result this time.... tv, radio, (free or politically aligned) newspaper, Twitter, web, Facebook.  And whose opinion on the impact did you trust most?

So I’ve seen a number of bloggers and journalists saying that  a hung parliament can be made to work because it is just like running a business – it requires collaboration and compromise.

 

Let’s examine this idea in more detail.  What makes a business work?

 

-    A leader with decision making power: Even if they are not making the correct decisions, at least they are making decisions which sets the strategy or direction for the company. Examples of companies in turmoil are those where the leader has left and the company is left rudderless and there is fighting for the leadership position

-    A shared goal or some direction:  In the absence of any clear strategic direction, it is to be successful enough so that employees can continue to earn a salary. To win work and make money. Very few people want to see the company they work for fail.

-    A level of transparency: People try and keep politics out of business because hidden agendas slow down any real action. Why are smaller companies more nimble, have less bureaucracy and more enjoyable to work in.  People spend less time ‘politicking’ / managing their career and more time focused on the job

 

I don’t see any of these traits in a hung parliament. In fact it is the complete opposite

 

Lets contrast this with Nimbus where I am Chairman and CEO.

 

At Nimbus we have an Exec Team who actually likes working together. We work together and play together. As Chairman and CEO I am not a dictator, but harness the energy and experience of the Exec Team to get an agreed direction. We genuinely work in a collaborative way.

 

We've been together long enough to know what each is thinking, we have a common goal (profitable growth), we are not afraid to speak our minds, we are not fearful of losing our jobs in a Boardroom coup. That is refreshing and fun.

 

Remember – Life is not a dress rehearsal. We get only one go at it. So do something you enjoy.

Net result.  The company is performing well.  The Exec Team enjoys working together. That feeds its way down the company. We have a happy, high performing company which people (clients, partners, employees) want to be around.

 

“Very pink and fluffy – give me some facts” some of you may be saying. 

 

-    We have very low attrition.  The last person who resigned from the company, came back 3 months later. The resignation before that was over 4 years ago – so way before the recession.

 

-    2 years ago we look at the market and were concerned about a slowdown so we cut costs and very regrettably made some staff redundant. It was very painful, but necessary. Now business is on the up we are hiring. The first of those made redundant has re-joined the company. That says a lot for the redundancy process; sympathetic, fair, integrity.

 

- we don't need to pay headhunters to find us staff.  We have brilliant people come to us who want to work for Nimbus - often taking a pay cut.

 

There is a lot of research that a Happy Company produces Better Returns and a recent book by FT Press called  What Happy Companies Know spells it out

Happy companies are winning companies. Well-adjusted, psychologically healthy companies collaborate better. They innovate more effectively. They change faster. They see reality with exceptional clarity, but they know how to address it positively.

Does that sound like working as a senior politician in a hung parliament? I think not.

 

Below is a true (and very funny) exchange which I think sums up how easy it is to discount the value of experience.

 

It also illustates that email is only 7% of the communication. The other being 38% tonality and 55% body language.

 

Finally a picture (or pie chart) says a thousand words

 

BTW I am perfectly happy to give up time  - a valuable resource which is finite - to help people.

Start from the top.

From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Monday 16 November 2009 2.19pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Logo Design

Hello David,

I would like to catch up as I am working on a really exciting project at the moment and need a logo designed. Basically something representing peer to peer networking. I have to have something to show prospective clients this week so would you be able to pull something together in the next few days? I will also need a couple of pie charts done for a 1 page website. If deal goes ahead there will be some good money in it for you.

Simon


From: David Thorne
Date: Monday 16 November 2009 3.52pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Logo Design

Dear Simon,

Disregarding the fact that you have still not paid me for work I completed earlier this year despite several assertions that you would do so, I would be delighted to spend my free time creating logos and pie charts for you based on further vague promises of future possible payment. Please find attached pie chart as requested and let me know of any changes required.

Regards, David.




From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Monday 16 November 2009 4.11pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Logo Design

Is that supposed to be a fucking joke? I told you the previous projects did not go ahead. I invested a lot more time and energy in those projects than you did. If you put as much energy into the projects as you do being a dickhead you would be a lot more successful.



From: David Thorne
Date: Monday 16 November 2009 5.27pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Dear Simon,

You are correct and I apologise. Your last project was actually both commercially viable and original. Unfortunately the part that was commercially viable was not original, and the part that was original was not commercially viable.

I would no doubt find your ideas more 'cutting edge' and original if I had traveled forward in time from the 1950's but as it stands, your ideas for technology based projects, that have already been put into application by other people several years before you thought of them, fail to generate the enthusiasm they possibly deserve. Having said that though, if I had traveled forward in time, my time machine would probably put your peer to peer networking technology to shame as not only would it have commercial viability, but also an awesome logo and accompanying pie charts.

Regardless, I have, as requested, attached a logo that represents not only the peer to peer networking project you are currently working on, but working with you in general.

Regards, David.





From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 11.07am
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

You just crossed the line. You have no idea about the potential this project has. The technology allows users to network peer to peer, add contacts, share information and is potentially worth many millions of dollars and your short sightedness just cost you any chance of being involved.



From: David Thorne
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 1.36pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Dear Simon,

So you have invented Twitter. Congratulations. This is where that time machine would definitely have come in quite handy.

When I was about twelve, I read that time slows down when approaching the speed of light so I constructed a time machine by securing my father's portable generator to the back of my mini-bike with rope and attaching the drive belt to the back wheel. Unfortunately, instead of traveling through time and finding myself in the future, I traveled about fifty metres along the footpath at 200mph before finding myself in a bush. When asked by the nurse filling out the hospital accident report "Cause of accident?" I stated 'time travel attempt' but she wrote down 'stupidity'.

If I did have a working time machine, the first thing I would do is go back four days and tell myself to read the warning on the hair removal cream packaging where it recommends not using on sensitive areas. I would then travel several months back to warn myself against agreeing to do copious amounts of design work for an old man wieding the business plan equivalent of a retarded child poking itself in the eye with a spoon, before finally traveling back to 1982 and explaining to myself the long term photographic repercussions of going to the hairdresser and asking for a haircut exactly like Simon LeBon's the day before a large family gathering.

Regards, David.



From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 3.29pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

You really are a fucking idiot and have no idea what you are talking about. The project I am working on will be more successful than twitter within a year. When I sell the project for 40 million dollars I will ignore any emails from you begging to be a part of it and will send you a postcard from my yaght. Ciao.



From: David Thorne
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 3.58pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design





From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 4.10pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Anyone else would be able to see the opportunity I am presenting but not you. You have to be a fucking smart arse about it. All I was asking for was a logo and a few pie charts which would have taken you a few fucking hours.



From: David Thorne
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 4.25pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Dear Simon

Actually, you were asking me to design a logotype which would have taken me a few hours and fifteen years experience. For free. With pie charts. Usually when people don't ask me to design them a logo, pie charts or website, I, in return, do not ask them to paint my apartment, drive me to the airport, represent me in court or whatever it is they do for a living. Unfortunately though, as your business model consists entirely of "Facebook is cool, I am going to make a website just like that", this non exchange of free services has no foundation as you offer nothing of which I wont ask for.

Regards, David.

From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 4.43pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

What the fuck is your point? Are you going to do the logo and charts for me or not?

From: David Thorne
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 5.02pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design



From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 5.13pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Do not ever email me again.

From: David Thorne
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 5.19pm
To: Simon Edhouse
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Ok. Good luck with your project. If you need anything let me know.

Regards, David.

From: Simon Edhouse
Date: Tuesday 17 November 2009 5.27pm
To: David Thorne
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo Design

Get fucked.




 

We all want to succeed, but few people get the very special advice that L. Vaughan Spencer gives to his clients. Here he takes tea with the Economist